Forest list archive: msg00046

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Re: Sustainable Forest Management Roundtables



     >> Original comments by Bob Keeland
     > Intermediate responses by Christian Hoffmann of the
          Swiss Federal Institute for Forest, Snow and Landscape Research
       Final comments by Bob Keeland

     This is a really long message.  You would probably be better off to
     just hit delete at this point.

     I'm not sure what Christian Hoffman meant by, "My contribution to this
     is a well meant advice to consult at least one forest ecology book
     about sustainability."

     Does this mean that reading a forest ecology textbook will make all of
     the previous debate on this subject a waste of time.  I thought that I
     had read forest ecology texts, but I consulted two textbooks to
     refresh my memory.  I found very little on sustainability in the
     first, Forest Ecology 3rd edition, by Spurr and Barnes, 1980, Wiley.
     They did provide a VERY brief discussion of the effects of logging
     where they suggest that 1 to 15 ha clearcuts in old-growth Douglas-fir
     will re-seed naturally to Douglas-fir within a few years.

             This leads me to question if any timber company has conducted
             any 1 to 15 ha clearcuts within a matrix of old-growth
             Douglas-fir and are now managing that cleared area for future
             old-growth Douglas-fir?  If such a management plan is in place
             then I will be very surprised.

     The other forest ecology text was Forest Ecology by Kimmins, 1987,
     Macmillian.  This text had a much better discussion of sustainability
     in terms of renewability of resources.  Kimmins states that "A
     renewable resource is basically one that can be restored to the point
     of reuse after a period of time that is within our current economic or
     social planning time scale, or which is renewed at a rate that renders
     investment in its renewal economically attractive.  Resources not
     meeting these criteria would be classified as nonrenewable."  Further,
     when timber reaches "the limits of renewability in the socioeconomic
     sense. . . there is little enthusiasm to invest much in its renewal."
     (page 476)  He goes on to state that, "neither 1000-year-old redwoods
     in California, valued primarily as a recreational resource, nor
     300-year-old oaks in France, planted for the production of very large
     wine casks, can be considered as renewable resources in the commonly
     accepted sense of this term."

        It seems to me that over-exploitation of non-renewable
        resources is not sustainable and that 500-800 year-old trees would
        fall into Kimmins' classification of socioeconomically
        non-renewable.

     Kimmins also states, "in the nonrenewable condition, 'timber
     management' is tantamount to TIMBER MINING: that is, the use of
     socioeconomic values accumulated in the standing crop over a long
     period of time, with no prospect of renewal to the point of reuse over
     the contemporary socioeconomic time scale.  To pretend that we are
     practicing sustained yield in such forests is deluding ourselves."

        I fail to see anything in either of these two forest ecology texts
        that even begins to change my attitude on the "sustainability" of
        cutting the few remaining old-growth stands that still exist.

     >>     . . . .  Yes, I live in a wooden house and I enjoy building
     >>   things like furniture and toys from wood.  I would much rather
     >>   see a piece of land that was once bottomland hardwood forest used
     >>   to support a pine plantation than to see it supporting a
     >>   government subsidized, poor quality soybean, rice or cotton
     >>   field.  I would much rather see it as a bottomland hardwood
     >>   forest, but realistically, we want (need?) the wood and it has to
     >>   come from somewhere.

     >  How about food supply? How about eating soybeans instead of feeding
     >  cattle with it?

     I was not trying to get into the red meat controversy.  Rather, I was
     merely trying to say that, in my opinion, tree plantations are not
     such a bad thing if managed properly.  We all use wood and it has to
     come from somewhere.  In the US there is a lot of marginally
     productive, highly erodible land that is used to grow cotton or
     soybeans.  Much of this land once supported bottomland hardwood
     forests and probably should be returned to that type of crop.  Highly
     erodible land is much more suited to a long rotation crop like trees
     rather than a crop that requires annual plowing.

     >>     . . . . If we as a society are
     >>     so greedy as to cut the last old-growth forest, do we have any
     >>     hope that we as a society will allow any second growth forest
     >>     to remain uncut for centuries so that we can have more
     >>     old-growth forests.  I think the notion is ludicrous.  Once the
     >>     old-growth forests are gone, they are gone for good.

     >   The notion is not ludicrous. Nature, by storm or fire, will lay
     >   down these cherished old growths, anyway, some time. They are not
     >   everlasting. Even trees must die. Is this notion so terrrible?.
     >   See forest history of Vancouver Island. And some forest types need
     >   (!) catastrophic events to have a chance to regenerate at all.
     >   There would be no giant Redwoods without catastrophic storms,
     >   Western Hemlock would take over.

     Of course every ecosystem will be changing over time.  Some
     communities need disturbance whereas others are relatively
     self-replacing.  My point here was that it is ludicrous to think that
     the timber industry will leave a timber stand alone for centuries so
     that it can become old-growth.  I think that most people will agree
     that once the stand has become "overmature" the forest products
     industry will clamor to be able to cut it, perhaps in the guise of
     eliminating a potential fire hazard.

     >>     . . . .   Cutting old-growth trees on public land cost next to
     >>     nothing in comparison.  Nature has done the "management."  All
     >>     the timber company has to do is pay a nominal fee to the
     >>     government, let the government build the logging roads (in many
     >>     cases), cut all of the trees and walk away with their pockets
     >>     full of money.

     >    For many people in Europe, including me, this sounds next to
     >    ridiculous. The forest service should be responsible for planning
     >    tree harvest and get all the money earned by it.

     I agree with you in full, "next to ridiculous" is not strong enough.
     It is a disgrace.  Unfortunately the timber industry seems to be in
     bed with our politicians and the laws remain.  Many, if not most,
     government timber sales are conducted at a loss to the government.
     Unfortunately, neither science or common sense are involved.  It seems
     to be good old fashioned greed.  Did I fail to mention that the
     government also pays for replanting many of the logged areas?

     >>    I think that it was Aldo Leopold who once said, "the sign of an
     >>    intelligent tinker is that he keeps all of the parts."  We seem
     >>    to be throwing away a lot of parts and we have no idea of their
     >>    function or the consequences of their loss.

     >   How about getting Kimmins' forest game "FORTOON" and playing
     >   around with it? It is a challenge to test one's understanding of
     >   forest ecosystems.

     Are you trying to suggest that we currently know all there is to know
     about ecosystem dynamics and the functioning of old-growth forests,
     and that all of this information is contained in a "game" called
     FORTOON?  I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.  Although it would be
     interesting to play around with this game, and it may be educational
     to use in a classroom, my guess is that it barely scratches the
     surface of what we know about ecosystem dynamics and sustainability,
     and in my opinion we have just scratched the surface of what there is
     to know about this subject.

          BobK

     My opinions are my own, laugh, cry or shake your head, but don't blame
     my employer.


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# Bob Keeland, Ph.D.                 FOREST ECOLOGIST         #
# NBS, Southern Science Center       PHONE: (318) 266-8663    #
# 700 CajunDome Blvd.                  FAX: (318) 266-8592    #
# Lafayette, LA  70506            INTERNET: keelandb@nwrc.gov #
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