Dear Subscribers of FOREST list, if you just got a message that you have been removed from the FOREST list don't worry, you're still on the list. As Jarmo Saarikko asked me why he got error reports about a repeated message that wasn't distributed although it was distributed. Istudied the Received: headers and found out that the list had been accidentally subscribed to itself which on almost any other than the LISTSERV (tm) would have caused a fast loop filling out your mailboxes resulted in just these missleading error messages. So the message you got was sent to the list itself informing it that it has been removed from itself which seems to be a thing listserv doesn't catch ;-) IF you want to know more about listserv please send message with the words HELP and INFO ? to LISTSERV@LISTSERV.FUNET.FI. You can even have several personal subscription options including different confirmation styles and possibility of not receiveing mail temporarily without really leaving the list and digesting messages to larger collections. Speaking of errors, I've been for many weeks been tracing the strange problems apparently causing message duplication and delivery via strange routes. We have now installed new version of listserv on a new disk, changed and tuned several parameters and most importantly avoided using JNET (NJE software used by BITNET/EARN and also listserv traditionally) software which for some reason seems to have troubles with LISTSERV and was most likely the reason for duplicating messages. Some other problem rerouted the mail sometimes via unusual routes at the same time missleading us to suspect other things. I think we have managed to find the problem now although some fixes might still be needed. I've also subscribed for weeks now to the forest list and haven't seen much duplication except week ago Friday when it spontaneously started again for some reason and couldn't be circumvented before we got the new software version installed last week. We will have to do some changes later too so if you still receive duplicate messages or strange error messages please send them WITH the Received: headers intact to the list owner at forest-request@listserv.funet.fi (normally Jarmo Saarikko) possibly with Cc: to listmgr@listserv.funet.fi which is an account receiving listserv management messages (not list management which isprimarily the list owners task in normal situations) and we'll take a look and even buy a new computer iwith different operating system if the problems don't disappear any other way. In case interested in mail debugging: Received: lines are like postal stamps each passing postoffice stamps the message with and are invaluable in trying to figure out where problems might be located. Many mail programs tend to hide or even destroy them but usually they can be made visible with some option setting. Even when messages duplicate, usually some of the Received: headers are different telling where the duplication might occur. Sometimes it happens when your postoffice can take only a partial message for some reason and our postoffice (or anybody else's for that matter) then tries to resend that failed message for several times. Global Electronic mail web is fairly complex collection of different standards, software and configurations made by many people, I sometimes wonder how it manages to work even that well as it does. When list has problems please notify the -request address almost any list has. If that doesn't help, almost any domain (postoffice, the string on the right of @ sign) has the Internet standard postmaster alias that forwards the message to the probably over worked postmaster person. Please use a personal Subject: line since some postmasters filter out "no action required" type error messages automatically based on what the Subject says. If this mini course on mail debugging sounds too complex, just remember that your organization should have a local postmaster who's supposed to know how to debug mail problems. And finally, please be patient, there's many problems among the millions of messages delivered in the world daily. Sorry for the trouble on behalf of FUNET (and our software vendors). I hope you'll stay on FOREST@LISTSERV.FUNET.FI located in the forested Finland. Harri Salminen FUNET Listserv Coordinator (not the postmaster usually)
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